Worldly Chatter

I am really beginning to hate that question and Dutchie is tired of the ‘why don’t you move there with her?’ You see people, I have said this before and I shall say this again. I cannot sponsor Dutchie and bring her to America. My country does NOT recognize my relationship to her, it’s just that simple. My marriage to her will mean squat to the US government. How then do I bring Dutchie to the US for her to live there with me? She can try to find work in the US and hope a company would be willing to put the time, effort and gobs of money to get her a work permit and a green car. Since this is highly unlikely so what else is there? She is Dutch; her family is Dutch so there is no one else to sponsor her. My government makes it impossible for us to establish a family in the country, they stipulate that my relationship doesn’t count under the laws of immigration therefore there is no chance, no hope and not a prayer that can be said so long as that administration is in office.

The other thing I am slightly puzzled over as well as Dutchie is this. When people ask me how I like it or do I plan to remain here indefinitely I say yes. They ask me what about America, won’t you miss it or want to live there again. I say no, I miss my family and friends but don’t miss living there and they literally stand there dumbfounded over this! I’ll tell you something, people have a strange perception of my country. I mean no disrespect to my American readers and I mean no disrespect to those that love their country or wish to live there but I have no desire to live that way again.
In living here, I have seen and experienced things that I cannot over look. Health insurance, work, food that is not only healthy but affordable and this notion that I am just like everyone else! I haven’t experienced any of the discrimination and crap I went through living in the US. I can’t deny that fact. I sit here legally engaged; according to the IND and the town of Hilversum, I am engaged to Dutchie and will marry her in September. The federal government has not said, no you can’t do that, you’re gay! The government only asked that I prove that she is the only one by submitting documents stating I have never been married or partnered with anyone else. When I walk down the street holding her hand, no one stares, gawks or points. There are no comments and you don’t feel as though you are somehow offending someone when you walk past them while they give you the evil eye.
Why in the world would I want to go back to being denied the simple rights and go back to being abnormal and discriminated against when I know that there is more out there? Knowing that I have found something for me that makes me happier than I ever have, why give that up to go back to America, just because it is the place of my birth? When I explain all this to people at work they stand there not understanding. They really don’t get that I cannot marry her there and that their country is rare when it comes to the rights of gay people. They also don’t realize how expensive it is to live there, at least where I lived in NY and CT, and don’t realize that so many Americans go through life with no health insurance. I really think they get some distorted version of my country through movies. Once I explain a few things, like how I lived without insurance, not a lot of jobs and the inability to bring Dutchie over there, I then get a ‘ohhhhh I see! I didn’t realize!’ or I get ‘yeah well if your country is like that I wouldn’t either!’ Don’t get me wrong, there are a lot of great things about my country; there are a great many things I like and love about my home but I am happy where I am and find life a lot better here in Holland. I guess the fact that I have to constantly explain this is getting rather old and annoying. Sometimes it isn’t enough to state that I like it better here, they want to know why and what was it like. It makes for interesting conversation but really, why don’t you bring her there does get old quick.

worldly chatter, American expat, Dutch, Netherlands, gay rights, gay marriage

That is the date of our wedding! I am actually going to be getting married! It is not a partnership, not a civil union but a full on wedding! Absolutely incredible! We had to go down to the town hall and were there for a half hour or so signing stuff and stating what we wanted. At 10 am on September the 3^rd I will officially be a Mrs.!

I remember growing up in NY, going to high school and doing all the things kids do around that age. I dreamed of growing up but not quite sure what I was going to do with my life at that moment. I thought about family and all the same stuff my friends thought of but I knew I wasn’t going to get married; my country simply did not and does not allow me the right to marry. I grudgingly accepted it and moved on, what else was there to do really? I left home and attempted to make a life for myself but some obstacles hit my way and slowly I was realizing that simply accepting it wasn’t working, yet there was nothing else to do. We all know the state of American politics when it comes to gay marriage and so long as Bush is sitting in his comfy chair in the White House I or any other gay person will not be able to marry under federal law; he will just have all the fun he wants saying no, no and no again. I got older and more infuriated that I feel as though I am placed as a second-class citizen simply for having someone of the same sex in my bed, which no one can see anyway but I will not go there today.

Dutchie had asked me to marry her and we have patiently been waiting for our time when we could actually marry. The IND process of just getting my permit took up time and then the permission I needed to marry a Dutch person. Yet it is here, the day has come when we are officially engaged and in three and a half months will be married and I still cant believe that I, a gay American citizen, is going to get married! I never, ever thought I would have this moment when I will forever be bound to someone by law in marriage! I cannot stop smiling and I cannot stop saying it! I am getting married! Dutch law states that in order for Dutchie to sponsor me we both have to prove we are not bound to any other person and that I am coming here to be with her. There wasn’t a point to getting married in a rush before getting my permit because Dutch law looks at it as irrelevant in its decision to give or deny permits. So we waited and did it by the book and we are registered in Hilversum to be wed on September 3^rd!

Another wonderful thing about Dutch law is it makes absolutely no distinction in marriage; straight or gay its all the same, marriage. When we went in for our appointment yesterday their wasn’t a list of different types of marriages or partnerships, heterosexual or homosexual, it simply said marriage or partnership. The concept isn’t hard and I don’t understand why my own country will not get this. I am so blessed to have fallen in love with Dutchie. We are happy and loved by one another and we live in a country where one can be treated equal when gay. It’s an incredible feeling! After years of torment, rejection, hate and discrimination for who I am, I am now in a place where I don’t get that. I haven’t experienced it once since being here and I still don’t get used to that. I can get married and I can’t stop saying it! I am getting married! I feel for those of my friends still living in America who can’t, I wish I could express somehow what it feels like to finally have something you thought you would never have. I want to express the joy and freedom I have in not having to deal with the hate and rejection any more like I did when I once lived in America. Yet with all I want to express I cannot find the words right now, I sit here continuously going, wow and whoa over all that has taken place with me and Dutchie. I love that her country is what it is and wish desperately that my country could take a lesson from them and see that marriage is marriage and it works with gays just as it does with straights. I know however, it will take much more time and effort to see it done in America. The country and its politics simply won’t see the discrimination it breaths everyday when it denies someone something they have, they don’t see the hatred and torture they bestow on people who have done nothing to them and I wish they would see it. See it, own it and change it but I won’t be holding my breath while I wait either.

Finally! After so long Dutchie and I are getting married in September, oh yeah, I am still beaming over here! I am the luckiest girl in the world right now!

gay marriage, marriage, wedding bells, Dutch marriage law, worldly chatter, getting married

I recently read something on NY Governor Eliot Spitzer and his legislature for same sex marriage in New York; Governor Eliot Spitzer’s same sex marriage hoax. According to the writer, there was no law in New York that denies the right to marriage for gay couples. In fact, the writer goes to say that the law is not gender specific and the only thing standing in the way is in the Department of Health where they state it is between one man and one woman. Could it really be that simple? Governor Spitzer could simply change the wording in the Department of Health documents pertaining to marriage by executive order and same sex couples can marry? No legislature necessary; can it be?

There was a letter written from the Attorney General’s office to Darrin B Derosia from the City of Cohoes in NY and Peter Graham from the town of Olive in NY back in 2004 addressing this very issue. It gave an overview of the Domestic Relations Law, formal requirements, voidable marriages, annulments and divorces. It states that parties must be of age and capable in law of making a contract. The entire overview of this law is in fact not gender specific, only parties and persons used in reference to those who intend on marrying. It also does not include requirements that marred persons be of the opposite sex nor does it declare invalid marriages between persons of the same sex. The section of “absolutely void” or “voidable” makes no mention of same sex marriage. In fact, it makes no mention of it either for or against the marriage of persons of the same sex. Yet, with all this, it is the opinion of the office is that the Domestic Relations Law is not intended to authorize same sex marriage based on historical intentions and wording stated in some passages in the law. The letter states that ‘the Attorney General issues formal opinions only to officers and departments of State government. Thus, this is an informal opinion rendered to assist you in advising the municipality you represent.’ Attorney General Letter

State of New York Department of Health does mention bride and groom when referring how to obtain a marriage license in the state of New York.

In the case Hernandez v. Robles 2006 in the court of appeals, the opinion of the court states ‘we hold that the New York Constitution does not compel recognition of marriages between members of the same sex. Whether such marriages should be recognizes is a question to be addressed by legislature.’ In the discussion aspect of the decision states the following. ‘All the parties of these cases now acknowledge, implicitly or explicitly, that the Domestic Relations Law limits marriage to opposite sex couples. Some, however, suggest that the statute can be read to permit same sex marriage, thus mooting the constitutional issues. We find this untenable. Articles 2 and 3 of the Domestic Relations Law, which govern marriage, nowhere say in so many words that the only people of different sexes may marry each other, but that was the universal understanding when articles 2 and 3 were adopted in 1901, an understanding reflected in several statures. Domestic Relations Law § 12 provides that “the parties must solemnly declare… that they take each other as husband and wife.” Domestic Relations Law § 15(1)(a) requires town and city clerks to obtain specified information from “the groom” and “the bride.” Domestic Relations Law § 5 prohibits certain marriages as incestuous, specifying opposite-sex combinations (brother and sister, uncle and niece, aunt and nephew), but not same-sex combinations. Domestic Relations Law § 50 says that the property of “a married woman . . . shall not be subject to her husband’s control.” New York’s statutory law clearly limits marriage to opposite-sex couples. The more serious question is whether that limitation is consistent with the New York Constitution.’

Therefore, it really is not that simple is it. When I read the article, I wanted to think it was that simple, that the governor just refused to do something to make us equals in the eyes of New York. He had executive power to change what the Department of Health decreed as marriage. The article stated the legislation he proposed in April of this year was a hoax, a smoke screen to avoid doing all he could. Yet in my opinion the authors did not do all of its homework. The constitution of the state, legislative branch and judicial actions put forth the laws New Yorkers must follow. Within its very laws, it is vague and in the decision of the court of appeals state, this needs addressing by legislature. That is what Governor Spitzer is doing. I do not find compelling evidence that it is that simple as to change the wording in the Department of Health paperwork. As much as I or any other gay person in or from New York would like to believe it could be done with such ease, it is not. Nothing is ever that simple. The article gives us reason to believe he is not doing all he can. This article states there is something sinister and misleading in the Governor of NY. Spitzer has to contend with laws that give gender specifics, judicial decisions and a legislative branch that may or may not allow gay rights. Give him a chance to hold up the word he gave, he already put forth the legislature he said he would. Give it a chance to do something before condemning him misleading and his actions a hoax.

Governor Spitzer, State of New York, Gay rights, Gay Marriage, Domestic Relations Law of NY, same sex marriage

While it might not be the case all over the world, a lot of countries have strict policies about marriage; Holland just happens to be one of those countries. I, as a non-Dutch National, have no right to marry Dutchie unless the IND says I can so we have to ask permission to marry. Now that I have my permit in hand we can do just that. So last night we headed to the Publiek Zaken (public office) with our folder that contains everything we have on the IND and our paperwork. We were going prepared as we weren’t entirely sure what we would need to give them. We talk to the receptionist and she gives us a number and we take our seats in the waiting area. I am reminded of the dings that I heard Monday while waiting to pick up my permit. The dings are back! I hear them and watch the screen tell me what’s new in Hilversum all over again. Patience is the key when you are anxious to do something right away. At least this time I had Dutchie waiting with me. Then finally it is our turn and back to booth four!
Dutchie explains what we need as she hands the gentleman our application. It seems they don’t see this particular form often as he looked shocked to see it and the woman I dealt with on Monday had never even seen it! However, unlike Monday, he knew what to do with it! Now when I say we have to apply and ask permission to marry I mean I personally am doing it. I had to hand over a copy of my permit and my birth certificate plus the form Dutchie and I had filled out. Nothing was required of Dutchie at all so it seems the only reason she was there was to better translate everything! So the kind man copies what is needed, gives me a copy of my own permit with stamps and signatures to prove that I actually applied. He explained that the IND now has to review the application and make sure everything is up to par. I am not sure how it wouldn’t be as I only just got my permit but what can I do about? They have a system and I must abide by it right? Then he states this process will take 6-8 weeks. Are you kidding me? Absolutely everything is up to par; it had to be just to get my permit! It took time to get my butt over here, get my permit process and time to actually get it. I shouldn’t be surprised. Besides I can’t complain. I can actually marry Dutchie! My country says we can’t but hers says there isn’t a problem; her country is actually nice that way. I mean she could have been from Belgium where you can’t marry someone outside the country if you’re gay so I am thrilled here! So now we wait, again. At least now my application is in and by September I will be a married woman!

wedding bells, Netherlands, American expat, Dutch IND, marriage application

Even though gay marriage has been legal and quite the norm here in Holland since April first of 2001 there are still people who don’t want it and try to do anything from having to participate in such laws. COC Nederland did a survey of 443 Dutch municipalities that showed that one in eight Dutch municipalities have officials in service who refuse to marry gay couples. Twenty municipalities said that they may continue in the future to hire officials who object to performing such marriages. It was at the demonstration In Amsterdam at the Homomonument that one of the leading organizations for the GLBT community in Holland read its results. Over three hundred showed up to protest against civil servants refusing to perform gay weddings.
As a result representatives of political parties signed an agreement in which they state they do not support any legal acknowledgement for official’s right to refuse to perform gay marriages. Political part PvdA Chairman Michiel Van Hulten agreed with Socialist Party SP member Anja Meulenbelt in saying that there should be no distinctions in the marriages performed by civil servants who uphold the law. Article found here.
In New Jersey, where civil unions are now legal, law stipulates that if persons working for the state or lower position within town and county refuse to perform the ceremony they are they barred from performing any civil union or marriage. Law stating that there is no distinction between the civil unions and that if one has problem with performing one ceremony they will be barred from all. While some clerks and office officials have left their position over the new law most have stayed agreeing to adhere to the new law.
Maybe for once at least part of the US has done something right when it comes to adhering to equality in people?
Another thing the chairman is calling for is all local PvdA branches submit motions in municipal councils to prevent any officials from being hired who refuse to perform all services of marriage. Jersey already made sure that these cases wouldn’t happen, I’m impressed.
It goes to show that even in a country so open to change and expression still has its pit falls and individuals who wish to dwell in the past.

I had a question the other day about whether or not the whole countries, meaning its people, were as open as the law states. Was it the government or its people who wanted change? It was both, actually. Polls at the time state that seventy-five percent of the people were for the equal rights bill and when it finally came down to voting time it was 109-33 in favor of marriage in Parliament. It took fifteen years but in reality that isn’t bad, it’s just how the Dutch do it. They like being thorough and when it comes to dramatic change they want it right. Now that it is in place and so common now there isn’t any real thought of getting rid of it. Only as you see here, there are still some opposed to it and do what they can to aggravate people but really not much else.
For more information on Dutch law and gay marriage click here.

gay marriage, marriage, Netherlands, equal right, Netherlands marriage

Two articles that might be of interest can be found here. And here.

The perfect dress exists as does the ring that says ‘I do’. So Dutchie and I are on the hunt for that which screams perfection. September, while six months away, is creeping faster than I imagined and there is so much to do and consider that I wonder if I will forget something! The other thing I toss about my head while having a cup of tea is how my wedding will be different than what I thought it would be.
I watched a DVD about a week and a half ago on the wedding of Prince Willem Alexander and now Princess Maxima of the Netherlands. Dutchie brought it home for me knowing I thoroughly enjoy submerging myself in this new culture and it gave me a perfect opportunity to see what my own wedding would be like. To say it was a beautiful wedding would be an understatement. Princess Maxima looked positively stunning in her gown while her Prince really did embody the handsome prince ready to scoop up his bride and ride off into the sunset. I found myself pondering the words spoken and placing myself in the middle of all this and getting overwhelmed picturing Dutchie and I saying Ja.
We are currently looking at Trouwen and going online to get some ideas of where we want to go. We intend on going to Den Haag to look at some wedding rings we fell in love with, going to another town outside Utrecht where we think the perfect dress is waiting for me. This past weekend in Hilversum Dutchie tried on a beautiful pant suit that looked gorgeous on her though when we go and look at the dress we might look into a matching outfit for Dutchie. We sat with a jeweler to look at wedding rings and brought home a few books to browse through. There are so many details to consider and so many options out there for us to grab a hold of and take as our own. Maybe a three tier cake or beautifully decorated cupcakes with little brides sitting atop? Shoes, maybe a pair of earrings and a small bracelet; what else is there?
Both Dutchie and I have the two people we would like to be our witnesses and are also pondering the more American touch of walking down an aisle with someone to give us away. We want to have the ceremony in both English and Dutch and want to have pictures and a video made so those who cannot attend can still share in our day. Let us not forget the small detail that I am foreign so therefore we have to apply for our license and get permission from the IND, a formality really now that I have been granted my residence permit but still something that must be done. Our license will be valid for six months, in that time we have to be married or we need to do it all over again. So in the middle of April we are applying so we can get married in the beginning of Sept. People on the other side of the pond have to book passage after that and the real fun begins!
I know that our mere window shopping and glancing will come to a stop and the real shopping will happen soon. I imagine my readers will be hearing all the gory details as Dutchie and I get closer to our day because I know I won’t be able to contain myself; too much excitement not to share! I’m sure you went on and on the closer your day came!

I mentioned before that in September I am getting married. A day that is supposed to be joyous no matter how small or elaborate the day; it is meant to be special based on the couple marrying and the family and friends who attend. I can’t wait for my day; I get butterflies in my stomach just thinking about it and a smile from ear to ear. I know it will be here in Holland and that my family, living in New York, have quite a trek to get here but wouldn’t it be worth it to see their only daughter? I would like to think so. Yet my day has caused turmoil. Not something I have wanted but unfortunately expected. You see if you haven’t noticed dear readers in my previous posts that my marriage isn’t of the ‘norm’. I am a gay woman who will marry my Dutchie in September. I cannot marry her in America where my friends and family are and I cannot bring her there to stay. So here in the Netherlands where they are more liberal and open minded we will marry. I know it hasn’t always been this way for the Netherlands. It wasn’t until 1998 that the Netherlands allowed domestic partnership and finally in 2001 full marriage rights. My country is trying to do the reverse and it saddens me. Not only because my country is doing this but because it is all based on religion and personal beliefs that the country is making its decision.
Naturally you have people on this side of the pond who oppose the marriage laws here and I imagine there always will be, the Netherlands are not without their own individuals who wish to suppress the rights of others, however the option is still given to me because enough people were open minded to the idea of gays having rights just as anyone else. I don’t wish to generalize but facts dictate that majority who oppose it are of the religious influence. Those who wish to make laws of a nation based on a book they consider holy. These individuals reside in our governments as well as residing in our families and neighbors. They push my rights aside because of a belief I don’t hold, because of something they can’t see because it happens in the privacy of my own home. Whether I like it or not they are in my very family.
The reason I write all this? Because of religion and some concept that I am sinful in the actions I take based on another’s personal opinion I have members of my family who will not attend. I have nothing against God or how you believe in God, that isn’t my issue. My issue is the fact that if you have issue with my life or some aspect of it then say so and accept that we won’t agree on it. Instead I get ridiculous side answers that actually have nothing to do with the issue at hand. I can’t go because of this that and the other thing when the underlying reason is something I do that you don’t like. Why not just say it is because I hate the things you do? It seems it’s because they don’t want to upset the balance of my life or challenge their conscious. I would rather they tell it straight forward and get it over with.
That’s what I like about Europeans and the Dutch in particular. There is no beating around the bush. If it is based on your religion that you cannot attend then they say so. If they have issue, they tell you and if possible give something to back it up or at least have the conviction to stand by it without wavering. Not everyone is religious and not everyone sees that my life is sinful and somehow harmful to the human race at large. If you accept that not everyone believes as you and that they have this right then you are open minded enough to not deny them something. I am not Christian, I don’t see my life as going to hell and I do not feel that my life is influential enough to affect the human race at large. At least most of the Christians here are decent enough to admit that it doesn’t and Holland was the first to see that. Why can’t my country accept that I am not Christian and therefore should not have to contend with Christian law?
I now get to contend with the guessing games of whether my wedding will harm or embarrass the Christians in my life and I have to deal with the ignorance they have and they feel I have. I get I accept you but not this aspect, I want you to be this way and if I can have it law then you have to! I mean no disrespect to any American or Christian out there, I truly don’t but how does my wedding affect you so greatly and why can’t you just give me a straight answer instead of telling me the bible says it’s so.
If it sounds harsh or angry I suppose it is because I am. Ignorance is not bliss and pushing a country backwards because of a belief that not all share is ignorance and foolishness in my opinion. Christianity is the majority in America and the majority of these Christians attempt to push their views on everyone around them and for what? What does get you? It does not show that you are Christian like by squashing someone else into hell with a book and it does not show your openness to humans in general. I know there are Christians in Holland who feel the same way and I see it on the news. The same mentality as the Americans trying to push it on the masses and get what they want. I am however grateful that the majority of Dutch people think past their own views to see the fairness of everyone. If they didn’t I wouldn’t be getting married in September.

Netherlands, gay marriage, religion, Christianity, homosexuality, equal rights

The United States has been trying for some time to ban Gay marriage. Everyone is aware of it but I don’t think everyone is aware of what that means for the average person. The Federal Marriage Amendment wasn’t passed but there is still the Defense Marriage Act of 1996 that prevents gay Americans from marrying fellow Americans as well as partners from other countries. I am in an international relationship and if I wanted to be happy in that relationship I had to move outside my own country to do so. As it stands right now federal law dictates who can and cannot come into the country and how they are brought in.

I now reside in the Netherlands where this isn’t an issue as it was the first country to allow gay marriage in 2001. It is also allowed now in a handful of countries and there are countries that don’t offer marriage of gay and lesbians but do recognize it. World wide it is a hot button and can constantly be found in the news in one form or another. In the presidential election of 08 it is once again finding a face and potential candidates are either for or against it and using that stance on it as a platform to gain votes. In a speech Hillary Clinton gave to the Human Rights Campaign meeting, she mentioned this very subject as well as the ‘Don’t ask Don’t tell’ policy put into act under her husband Bill Clinton. What is it about people and this issue of marriage?

It seems it is too much to ask to have the same rights as your fellow American even though what anyone does in their bedroom should remain there. Some say it will damage the credibility and sanctity of the heterosexual marriage and that it is against nature and God to have such a law put into place. Marriage has always been a part of politics and religion of any form because what religious and political leaders do is supposed to be an example of proper behavior in American society. Here you can find what one such blogger thought on the subject of marriage and politics. I found it thoughtful, specific and a good read on the subject.

So what is the definition of American society and what role does marriage play in it? If every American could marry would that make the divorce rate go up or down? Now that Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, Belgium and South Africa allow marriage would Americans find a way to emigrate there to find happiness? Would it benefit the economy in any way and what would it do for the reputation of America as a whole? These are just a handful of questions being asked by gays, straights, religious leaders, politicians and the average man. If America is the land of the free and the opportunity isn’t it contradicting itself by denying an entire group of people its fundamental rights such as marriage, tax benefits, insurance and medical practices already allowed to heterosexual families?

I as an American am denied basic concepts such as having my partner allowed to stay in my hospital room as my spouse if anything were to happen to me. Not many insurance companies give the option of adding my partner to the policy because we are not married and we cannot file our taxes jointly as a family for the same reason. I am not allowed to serve my country because my partner isn’t of the opposite sex and therefore it is thought that I would be checking out the rest of my company, making them uncomfortable and violated, instead of defending my country.

If you ask the average heterosexual person what would they do if they were not allowed these very same rights what would they tell you? Some have only said they aren’t and left it at that, feeling that this issue doesn’t affect them so why think about it. While others state they would demand these rights as stated that every American should be protected and granted the rights and liberties under the law.

As an expat in a country who sees no difference between a gay and straight person the feeling is drastic as I walk down the street, go to apply for permits and marriage licenses. I never thought I would feel the simple joy of planning a wedding, wearing the white dress and solidifying my life with the person I love. I have to admit that the fact that America would rather move backward and deny people simple things that others take for granted leaves me feeling unsettled and disheartened about the progress of my country. Just the simple question of why so much drama on giving simple rights and the answers leaves me hopeless that I might never be able to be truly happy in the country I should call home.

expats, living abroad, gay marriage, Defense of Marriage Act